Are oil level sensors really that much better than a dipstick??

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 02/18/2015 at 17:31 • Filed to: Question

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We truly are in a golden age for cars, performance or econoboxes; but we're also in a technically advanced age as well. I had no idea certain new cars I liked had no dipsticks, with oil level sensors in their place...

Those cars with sensors mostly being Porsche, BMW, and some other Euro cars. The only car I like right now that still has one that comes to mind, is a Mustang. Are the sensors really that much better, accurate, and more reliable long-term than a freaking dipstick, or is it just time moving on further extending laziness when it comes to cars??

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 17:32

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I like having both, just having the electronic drives me mad though.

ttyymmnn > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 17:34

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Do cars that have these sensors still have a dipsitck? Even the latest and greatest glass aircraft cockpit still has a traditional level, altimeter and compass. Computers can fail, and often do.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > ttyymmnn 02/18/2015 at 17:36

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Some do, our 2006 and 2010 Lagunas both have a stick and sensor. It is handy having the screen display oil levels, means you can check them daily.

T5Killer > ttyymmnn 02/18/2015 at 17:36

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IIRC BMWs no longer have them.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 17:38

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Considering that most people these days probably don't know how to open their hood let alone check their oil, yeah I think they're probably better for most people.

Smoggi - powered by 3 cylinders > ttyymmnn 02/18/2015 at 17:38

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My dad's new Skoda still has a dipstick. But I don't know if it was the electronic readout.

Sam > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 17:40

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I'd like both. Just this morning, my BMW warned me that my coolant level was low. Lo and behold, I had almost no coolant. If the sensor hadn't told me to check, I would've roasted the engine.

jariten1781 > ttyymmnn 02/18/2015 at 17:43

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Most do not have the stick.

I've heard a lot of reasons: cost, no emissions, through the dipstick hole, no potential for contamination, people don't check it anyway, people expect computerized things, no one changes their own oil etc etc.

Still haven't heard one that makes any sense though. It has to cost more to install and it has to have a higher failure rate...

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > ttyymmnn 02/18/2015 at 17:43

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I think my father's '06 3 series only has the digital. It gets a bit annoying in my opinion, but the computer interface is a bit easier than checking a dipstick.

ttyymmnn > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 02/18/2015 at 17:45

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It seems to me that having an electronic sensor would be better because so few people ever check their oil. At least they'll know if it's low.

Garrett Davis > Sam 02/18/2015 at 17:45

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To be fair, the old way was to see the temperature rising on the gauge. That's how I found out my Cherokee was low, so I pulled over, checked, let it cool, and then went and bought some coolant.

44444444444 > ttyymmnn 02/18/2015 at 17:49

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Not anymore! That's digital too!

44444444444 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 17:50

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My car from 2004 has a level sensor but I'd be loathe to trust it... Apparently it's calibrated to alert the drive if the car gets 1qt low. At least from what I have heard.

Conan > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 02/18/2015 at 17:52

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He can mod it to have a stick again. My awesomely semi Luddite Dad did.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 17:52

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No. No, they're not.

Only benefit is that they'll actually warn you when you're a quart low.

I wish my car had a good old-fashioned dipstick...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 02/18/2015 at 17:53

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Same here.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > jariten1781 02/18/2015 at 18:05

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Oh that check engine light? turns out our dipstick sensor has gone bad. that'll be 75 bucks. and No I can just replace it with a 10 dollar dipstick.

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 18:08

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One of my professors has a brand new E63 AMG (his prior car was a 997 turbo). He went on a half hour rant to me over his car not having a dipstick.

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 18:16

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I really hope that Porsche's system is 100% accurate cause it's a bit of a PITA.

With a dipstick I can just check the oil before starting the car. And I can later pull over and check it again if I want to see the level when the oil is warm.

But with the 997 I have to drive around a bunch to get the oil to temp before the system will let me check it.

What if the level is low and driving is going to hurt the car?

And even if it's not dangerously low what if it's a little low and I need to top up? Then I need to carry the oil with me if I'm not going to be home anytime soon. Which sucks if you're leaving for a little road trip and forgot to check the oil the day before.

Definitely a first world problem. Just a little annoying. The good old dipstick seems simpler and better. But most people can't into car maintenance so they had to make it easy for them.

ZacMS > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 18:39

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If it keeps me from having to pop the hood to check then why not? I cant count the number of times I've had to clean, reinsert the dip, rinse and repeat in order to get a good reading.

Plus my girlfriend has no idea what the dipstick is or what it does. A simple warning that says "hey, give me more oil!" would save a lot of trouble. Or even better a system that says "hey, over the last week you've lost 750ml of oil, take me to a garage!" would probably save a lot of people a lot of trouble.

RallyWrench > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 19:11

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Not in Porsches. It takes 10 fucking minutes to get an oil reading if you've started the car at all. From a shop perspective, they're incredibly frustrating because they waste time in services, often while the customer is waiting. They tend to leak in BMWs, VW/Audis, & Mercedes as well.

Twinpowermeansoneturbo > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 19:22

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If the car is cold it takes a good ten minutes to get a reading. This can be particularly frustrating if you're on a three hour drive, your oil light comes on, and you pull into a Walmart to buy oil. Then you proceed to fill the engine with oil via a dasani bottle from your girlfriends purse and have no idea if you've gone over the upper limit on the "dipstick"

NipperDawg > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 19:24

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Depends upon how they work. I would think conductive. Funny how the high end Mfg's are ditching something that costs pennies to make. I guess they only car about the first buyer, and not the second or third. Transmission dip sticks are also going away.

Zach Campbell > Garrett Davis 02/18/2015 at 19:29

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I had an experience like Sam's in my Volvo. The coolant hose actually came loose from the reservoir, leading to all the coolant leaking out. The temperature gauge stayed at dead center as it did not have coolant flowing over the sensor. Had it not been for a message appearing on my dash telling me the coolant was severely low and to pull over, I would have never known it was and would have cooked the motor.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. 02/18/2015 at 20:34

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The ST has both, but I only follow the manual and dipstick.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 02/18/2015 at 20:35

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Stupid people are even stupider today aren't they...

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > 44444444444 02/18/2015 at 20:36

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If any, I'd like a readout similar to that of a gas tank, from full to empty(god forbid it ever got to that point), measured in qts.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/18/2015 at 20:37

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It's a new turn off for me on newer cars, a LOT of cars, Not sure what to do about that. I'll probably just accept it for the stupidity it is.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 02/18/2015 at 20:37

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I like this prof. :p

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 20:38

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I check the dipstick on my car maybe once a fortnight. On my mams Renault I can check every day easily. The electronic display actually saved her from running it out of oil, since I hadnt visited and checked on it in a while. It had drank 2 litres of oil in about 3000 miles.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari 02/18/2015 at 20:39

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It's an actual unnecessary 1st world problem. I guess so long as I change based on recommended intervals, it would be "okay" but when would I know when to top it off?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > NipperDawg 02/18/2015 at 20:41

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There are trans dipsticks?? I never even knew that. Of course high end Mfg's only care about the first buyer, they're the only ones who will pay the full price instead of the ones who can't afford them new(aka, me and others who can't afford new and buy used)

44444444444 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 20:43

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It also has quality sensing... I think it measures resistance.

NipperDawg > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 20:47

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ATF dipsticks. Subaru have a front diff dip stick too. I think they are dropping dip sticks because you actually need to access the thing, and under some hoods it would ruin the pretty engine cover symmetry.

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 20:53

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The good news: the DFI motors don't really need to be topped off.

I thought they would cause people on forums said that they burn a lot of oil.

But that's only true when the engines are new. The oil consumption slows down by around 12-15K miles and then goes to normal by 20K miles. I never have to top up the oil on the 997. I keep checking the oil expecting to be low but it just doesn't burn oil. The E90 M3 burns a LOT of oil.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari 02/18/2015 at 21:00

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Oh thank goodness, so those cars are still an option of sorts.

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 21:03

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Yeah between him and his wife just that I know about, they have had recently 997 CS, 997 Turbo S (sold for the E63), Cayenne Turbo, E63 AMG, and an S4.

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 21:21

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Oh yes.

Trust me any Porsche 911/Cayman/Boxster that has a DFI motor is pretty much perfection when it comes to quality. Maybe just skip the first year of 981 production cause first year can have gremlins.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 02/18/2015 at 23:05

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Lol it does have a dipstick. Mercedes hasn't made an engine without a dipstick in going on ten years.

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/18/2015 at 23:06

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He begs to differ.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/18/2015 at 23:42

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I'm still not sure how they would work. At first I imagined it would be fairly easy, just run a float. But what if the float gets stuck and gummed up? Okay, then some voodoo magic maybe?

My FSAE team didn't want the weight (or fuel capacity reduction) of a proper fuel-level sending unit, so we experimented briefly with pressure sensors, but it turns out the difference in pressure between six inches of depth in gasoline isn't quite enough for accurate level displays, and even a well-baffled tank packed with fuel-cell foam had too much sloshing to be useful. I'd imagine you'd encounter similar difficulties with an oil pan. It might be easier with a dry-sump oil system... but then you'd have to design the dry-sump oil system.

Dipsticks are more accurate and reliable.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 02/19/2015 at 01:41

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He can beg to differ all he wants but it won't change the fact that he is wrong. It's there.

Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/19/2015 at 01:45

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Just looked at a photo, not particularly close. Is it on the front left of the V? If so, that old fucker needs to get his glasses checked.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Biggus Dickus (RevsBro) 02/19/2015 at 01:51

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It's either right in front of the oil cap, right front corner, or left rear corner behind the airbox. It can change depending on a few variables.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 02/19/2015 at 10:47

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I can somewhat see the point with the Boxster/Cayman... a boxer engine is a bit odd to route a dipstick to the oil sump, and the fact that the engine is under the cabin makes it double-problematic to dig in just to check the level.

It is a bit more odd for a traditional front-engined car, especially a Vee or Inline, not to have a dipstick, just for peace of mind, although with the complication of modern engine bays, the R&D time to properly route the dipstick tube to the right point in the sump pan, and around everything else that is fastened to the engine, it might be a bean-counter's idea to just leave it off, reduce the parts count, and call it good. They want you to go to the dealer for oil service, anyway.

I guess if all else fails, one could pull the pan, and install a sight-glass, tube gauge, or some other way to visually verify the oil level.